RE: Chance: 09.01.24: another look at the Gog and Magog war

Chance,

That is an interesting thought about the unwalled villages, and the unlikelihood that there will continue to be villages left unwalled, after October 7th.

A few years back, I had asked some questions, and made some suggestions, about the possibility of dual fulfillments of things mentioned in Ezekiel 38 & 39.

One thing I wondered about, was what if some of the things in Ezekiel 38 & 39 are fulfilled after the kingdom, and some fulfilled preceding Jesus' second advent.

Like the possibility that the unwalled villages will most likely be the actual condition after a thousand years of the kingdom.

Anyway, I have put those thoughts together, below.

Let me know if there may be any possibility that there could be some dual fulfillment going on, or if I've completely gone off the rails:

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(There is a battle, or battles, against Israel, involving someone called, “Gog” - First, said to Ezekiel:)

Ezekiel 38:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog,s the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

(Then, seen by John:)

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(There are different teachings on the timing of this:

1. at the beginning of, or just before, the tribulation

2. at the very end of the tribulation

3. after the thousand year kingdom

4. dual fulfilment: at the very end of the tribulation and also after the thousand year kingdom

5. generic allegories describing the enemies of Israel

There are also different teachings on the identity of Gog:

1. the leader of Russia

2. the fallen celestial prince over Asia Minor, i.e. Turkey

3. the antichrist

4. the devil

5. a combination of some of the above)

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(Quite a while back, I was taught that this battle happens at the beginning of the tribulation.

Then, over the years, that is what I only read about or heard about since that time, as well.

The reason, I was shown, for this battle happening at the beginning of the tribulation, was because of the following:)

Ezekiel 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

(They said that the seven years burning of the weapons must be the seven years of the tribulation.

There are others who do not agree with this, and point out things like:

After the first 3½ years, when there will be the abomination of desolation, many of Israel will flee to the wilderness.

They won’t be in the land of Israel, again, for the entire second 3½ years of the tribulation, the 1260 days:)

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

(Also, those remaining in the land, will face the great tribulation, the time of Jacob’s trouble, where ⅔ will die in the land, rather than to be still burning the weapons:)

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

(Then there are some other things mentioned in Ezekiel, that appear to possibly happen after the tribulation, at the second advent:)

Ezekiel 38:16c that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 39:6b and they shall know that I am the LORD.

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

13b and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

28a Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God,

29b for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

(Do those lines sound more like they happen after the time of Jacobs trouble, than before?

Especially considering that during the tribulation, Israel still rejects Jesus, and the nations go after the antichrist?

If this battle is before, or in the beginning of the tribulation, and the LORD also says in Ezekiel 39:7b and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more,

but that is exactly what many in Israel appear to do with the antichrist

If this battle is before, or in the beginning of the tribulation, and the LORD also says in

Ezekiel 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward,

however, it seems that most do not really know this until the second advent.

Is it all possible that this battle is not at the beginning of the tribulation, or before it?)

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(What about this battle only occurring after the thousand year kingdom?)

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(It says after “the thousand years are expired”, so what is described by John does happen after the thousand year kingdom.

However, there it's the devil identified as the one who deceives the nations to gather them to the battle.

This is similar to when the three: devil, the antichrist, and the false prophet, did the same at Armageddon, at the end of the tribulation.)

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

(Then, in Revelation 20:8, shown above, it says, “Gog and Magog” - This is similar, but slightly different from:)

Ezekiel 38:2b set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog,

(Also, John is shown that they are devoured by fire:)

Revelation 20:9b and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Ezekiel is told that they are devoured by ravenous birds and the beasts:)

Ezekiel 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

(And at the second advent, they are devoured by the fowls:)

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

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(So, it appears possible that what is described in Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39 has a dual fulfillment.

Much of the prophesy seems to fit into both, at the end of the tribulation, and also after the thousand year kingdom.

But there are parts of the prophesy that only appear to happen at the end of the tribulation.

And then parts of the prophesy appear to only happen after the thousand year kingdom.

Similar to the dual fulfilment of Jeremiah 50 & 51, where parts, like the total destruction, didn’t happen when Cyrus took Babylon.

If this is the case, then the first part happens at the end of the tribulation, not before, and is related to the battle of Armageddon.)

(There are other considerations:)

Ezekiel 38:4b all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

15b thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

(There are two descriptions, “all of them handling swords” and “all of them riding upon horses”.

These two things do not sound like modern warfare, leading to two possibilities:

1. That these two things only occur after thousand year kingdom, and only if natural people will not travel by car, truck, train, or plane, but only by horse, ship, or walking – perhaps crude oil products and electricity will not be used in the kingdom, maybe done away with – also, possibly, gunpowder will no longer be used, i.e. no more guns in the kingdom, where people would then make swords again, after the devil is let out of the bottomless pit.

2. That swords & horses, used here, simply refer to weapons and transport used by the armies, i.e. swords rather than staves, and horses rather than walking, would imply that these armies won’t be limited, but will have the best weapons and transportation available to them – if that is the case, then this battle could certainly, also happen at the end of the tribulation.)

Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

(This is certainly not a picture of Israel today, at all, and certainly not after 3½ years of the time of Jacob’s trouble.

Rather, this seems far more likely to describe Israel in the kingdom, after 1,000 years of peace.

Unless the Lord tarries, and things change dramatically, with possibly complete peace and tranquility for Israel and her neighbors.

But, then, that would only work early in, or before, the tribulation, because in the 3½ year great tribulation Israel will not be dwelling safely.)

Ezekiel 38:16c that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

(This doesn’t sound like after Jesus ruling and reigning on earth, so this may only refer to the tribulation part.)

Ezekiel 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

(Again, this sounds like the end of the tribulation, and not after the thousand year kingdom.)

Ezekiel 39:6b and they shall know that I am the LORD.

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

(Again, this sounds like the end of the tribulation, and not after the thousand year kingdom.

Also, Israel won’t be polluting his holy name, while he is here, on the throne, for 1,000 years.)

Ezekiel 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

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(This sounds more like the day of the LORD, at the end of the tribulation.)

12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man’s bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.

(After the thousand year kingdom, there will be a new heaven and a new earth, so this wouldn’t be done.

Also, after the thousand year kingdom, the remaining buried bodies will all be resurrected for the great white throne judgment,

to go to the lake of fire, so bodies will no longer be buried at that point.

So, this appears to occur after the tribulation, in the early part of the kingdom.)

17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

(Again, that does not appear to line up with:)

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(But, rather, it appears to line up with:)

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

(Also, in regard to the dual fulfilment explanation:)

Ezekiel 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

(This describes something after the tribulation, and not after the thousand year kingdom, especially line 29, when compared with:)

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only.

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