Patty,

             Thank you for your response.

You bring a very passionate perspective to FiveDoves.

It appears that in most of the things that I’ve read, that you and I see things in a very similar way.

This time around, you have brought to my attention, something that I had written, where I could have been a little more careful or at least a little clearer.

I appreciate that and thank you for helping me to look at this a little more closely.

Before continuing I wanted to point out something.

I had mentioned Baptist churches & preachers, so I need to clarify something:

There are two things amongst the Baptists, that are as different as night and day, but to those who are not in churches that are Baptist, they may seem the same.

One is a doctrine and the other is an attitude.

The doctrine is Eternal Security, but the attitude is Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS).

Amongst Baptists, especially amongst Baptist preachers, the vast difference between these two is well known.

The attitude of Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) is an extremely vile and wicked evil that has crept into the church.

It’s fruit is known far and wide, where people sin with abandon, while waving what they believe to be their ticket to heaven.

However, this attitude is clearly satanic, and is most often viewed as a clear evidence of a lack of a spiritual regeneration.

That attitude is so opposite from the mind of Christ and the conviction of an indwelling Holy Ghost, that it betrays that the person does not know the LORD at all.

Because of the growth of the numbers of those having the OSAS attitude, it’s nefarious fruit, and the effect that it has on the church, even the lost see it for what it is.

Also, because of this, many who are not members of a church that is Baptist, equate belief in the doctrine of Eternal Security, with having the OSAS attitude.

That is unfortunate, but it is what is happening.

 

I’ve said all that, to distance myself from the ungodly OSAS attitude, before speaking about sin.

The subject is sin, even more than the act of breaking a law, whether willfully or ignorantly.

Sin is something spiritual, whereas the act simply is a commission or an omission.

The first time the word sin is used, it is almost personified:

 

Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

 

The first time the word “sinners” is used, it is in the worst context:

 

Genesis 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

 

Early on, we see the first instance where a person was withheld from sinning by Divine intervention:

 

Genesis 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

 

By the second book, we are introduced to something called the sin offering, which continues to show up through many of the pages of scriptures:

 

Exodus 29:14 But the flesh of the bullock, and his skin, and his dung, shalt thou burn with fire without the camp: it is a sin offering.

 

The effect of sinning against the LORD is great:

 

Exodus 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

 

Then we see the mention of atonement for sin:

 

Leviticus 5:6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.

 

Then we see the sure mercies of David, in regard to his horrible sin:

 

II Samuel 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

 

Yet we then see how universal sin is:

 

I Kings 8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

 

We then see that it is really against the LORD whom we sin:

 

Psalm 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

 

We know that we are commanded not to sin, and we know that the LORD provides us a way not to:

 

Psalm 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

 

Only a fool would mock sin:

 

Proverbs 14:9 Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.

 

We cannot pretend that sin is not there:

 

Proverbs 19:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?

 

Yet the LORD promised a way to deal with our sin:

 

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

 

The LORD in love delivers us from the just destruction of sin:

 

Isaiah 38:17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.

 

So that he will not even remember our sins:

 

Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

 

Jesus himself would be the offering for sin:

 

Isaiah 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

 

We should not forget the peril of sin:

 

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

 

So, even God’s people need to be saved from their sins, not simply from the penalty of those sins:

 

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins

 

Yes, the LORD desires repentance:

 

Luke 5: 32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

Thankfully, Jesus receives sinners:

 

Luke 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

 

Thankfully, Jesus takes away “the sin” of the world:

 

John 1:29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

 

By the law we know our sin:

 

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

Unless the 1^st century Christians had reached “sinless perfection” (we know Corinth, Ephesus, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis & Laodicea didn’t), they were no longer classified “sinners”:

 

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us

 

Paul addressed the OSAS attitude:

 

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

 

Even the great apostle Paul struggled with sin:

 

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

For the Christian, it is the Holy Spirit in us, that makes the difference now:

 

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

How many of us sin so often without realizing it, since whatsoever is not of faith is sin, because so much of what we do is not of faith?

 

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

The law was made for sinners:

 

I Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

 

At the time of writing to Timothy, Paul still considered himself chief of sinners, he did not say “I was”, but “I am”.

 

I Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 

Collectively, we haven’t done so well in resisting sin:

 

Hebrews 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

 

How many good things are there which we Christians could have possibly done, but for some reason didn’t?

 

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

Can any of us claim “sinless perfection”?

 

I John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

We are not to sin, but if we do, we have an advocate:

 

I John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

If she got saved, then the same goes for that woman that was taken in adultery.