Gino (26 Nov 2023)
"RE: Paul F & Chance: 11.19.23: when does Ezekiel 38 and 39 take place"


Paul,
You bring up some very great points!
Over the years, when I've heard, or read, where people try to squeeze everything into one battle, then there are too many points that don't fit tightly.
For instance, many have said that the entire Ezekiel 38-39 war takes place before the tribulation, mostly because they look at the 7 year weapons burning.
Also, similarly, there are those who place it at the beginning of the tribulation, after the blessed hope.
In both cases: 
regarding the heathen:

Ezekiel 38:16b  and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

  23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.


Ezekiel 39:7c  and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

  21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.


regarding Israel:

Ezekiel 39:7a So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more:

  22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.


If it all happens before the tribulation, or at the beginning of the tribulation, how does that explain the following:

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

  4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


If the heathen will know the LORD, and the LORD will be known in the eyes of many nations, from Ezekiel 38 & 39, why would they then all worship the beast?
Also, since after Ezekiel 38 & 39, the LORD will not let Israel pollute his holy name any more, then that would leave some things that do not fit.
It seems that perhaps, the third temple, with its animal sacrifices, will be the ultimate blasphemy, denying the LORD's own sacrifice on the cross for them:

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

  18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

  22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.


Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.


Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

  10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

  12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

  3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

  4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

  5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

  6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

  11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

  12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

  29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


After the death and resurrection of Jesus, followed nearly 40 years later, by the destruction of the temple, Jesus is not, now, waiting for more animal sacrifices.
Rather, he is waiting for his people of Israel to call upon him, "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord".
Jesus had previously called that second temple, "my Father's house", and, "my house".
But by the end of Matthew 23, the scribes & Pharisees rejection of Jesus was clear, and then he called that temple, "your house":

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

  39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.


Jesus is not waiting for them to go back to "their house", to continue where they left off, denying him, and without his true sacrifice.
For the same reason that the second temple was destroyed, may be the very reason why they shouldn't have a third temple with animal sacrifices.

No, it doesn't seem that the following: 

Ezekiel 39:7a So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more:

  22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.


That it would somehow lead to further rejection of the LORD manifest in the flesh, the Messiah, by denying his blood, and instead trusting in animal blood.

However, you bring up some other good points, as well.
There are too many things that look like they only fit at the end of the thousand year kingdom.
While some of the other things seem to fit at the end of the tribulation.
I'm not in the prewrath camp, but I do listen to Chris White's podcasts.
A couple years back, he considered the possibility of dual fulfillment.
Where some of the things in Ezekiel 38 & 39 fit more with the timing of Armageddon.
Where other things only fit with the end of the thousand year kingdom, like the things that you pointed out.
Anyway, the next time you read Ezekiel 38 & 39, and also Revelation 20, see if the dual fulfillment approach has any merit.


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