Ron Reese (1 Nov 2011)
"My response to Sherry Vance"


 
Hi Sherry,  My responses are interspersed, in ALL CAPS, within your post.
 
 
Dear Ron;
 
You stated:  The 1st Seal Judgment, with the white horse rider, with the Antichrist, Obama, is well underway today.  The 2nd Seal should be next.
 
Question:  How is it that the Resurrection/Rapture has not yet happened and yet you say the 1st Seal is "well under way TODAY and the 2nd Seal should be next?
 
So that you know where I'm coming from with this question, let me explain that I believe Revelation 4 indicates the Resurrection/Rapture because it shows a door is opened in heaven, the scene is God on His throne, the Elders who represent all believers are seen before His throne giving honor and glory and casting their crowns (indicating the Bema Judgment where we are rewarded with crowns) has taken place; and following this scene (Revelation 5), we are still in the throne room when an angel hands Jesus the Scroll with which to begin the breaking of the Seals. After this (Revelation 6) the Seals begin to be opened.  So right away I see a discrepancy in the Seals being opened BEFORE we are in Heaven.
 
 
I AM WELL AWARE THAT MANY, INCLUDING YOU, BELIEVE THAT THE RAPTURE TAKES PLACE IN REV. 4.  YOU MAY BE RIGHT.  PERSONALLY, THE ONLY TIME THAT I AM CONVINCED THAT THE RAPTURE TAKES PLACE IS AT THE TIME OF THE SUDDEN DESTRUCTION.  I SEE THE SUDDEN DESTRUCTION TAKING PLACE IN THE 2ND SEAL JUDGMENT.
 
THE OTHER POINT I WANT TO BRING OUT IS THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE BOOK OF REVELATION WAS WRITTEN CHRONOLOGICALLY.  IF I HAD THE TIME, I COULD SHOW YOU NUMEROUS EXAMPLES AS TO HOW IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING IN REVELATION TO OCCUR CONSECUTIVELY.  THEREFORE, IT IS MY CONCLUSION THAT, EVEN IF THE RAPTURE TAKES PLACE IN REV. 4, THAT IS NO PROOF THAT NONE OF THE 21 JUDGMENTS HAVE YET TAKEN PLACE. A VERY LARGE NUMBER OF WATCHERS BELIEVE THAT SOME OF THE JUDGMENTS HAVE ALREADY TAKEN PLACE.
 
 
I believe there is a misunderstanding in your post of what the opening of Seal #1 shows.  Yes, the future antichrist is "here" but he is, as yet, "unrevealed."  He  already has a "seat of authority" (the Presidency of America/Mystery Babylon) so that he is "in position" when Satan is cast out of Heaven (in the midst of the "70th Week" - which we are approaching!) so that Satan can give him his God-granted authority to "continue" for 42 months of great tribulation.  And when Satan empowers him, he will exalt himself and commit the Abomination which will reveal him for what he is.  This is when the Jewish Remnant flees (see Matthew 24:15-21). 
 
I RECENTLY WROTE A SERIES OF POSTS ON "THE TWO REVEALINGS OF THE ANTICHRIST"  THEY CAN BE VIEWED ON 5 DOVES.  THE 2ND REVEALING, TO THE WHOLE WORLD, TAKES PLACE ON APR. 11, 2012, WHEN OBAMA WILL RECOVER FROM HIS MORTAL HEAD WOUND, AND BEGIN HIS 1260-DAY REIGN, DURING THE TIME OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION.  THE 1ST REVEALING, TO DISCERNING CHRISTIANS, HAS TAKEN PLACE ON OCT. 29, 2008, WHEN HE WAS REVEALED TO HAVE CONFIRMED THE COVENANT OF DAN. 9:27 IN FRONT OF MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TO CHANGE THE WORLD.  THIS IS WHAT THE ANTICHRIST DOES. 
 
But the fact that the as-yet-unrevealed-antichrist is already "here" does not mean that the First Seal has been opened and he's gone forth to conquer....by which time the Resurrection/Rapture will have already happened.
 
AGAIN, I WILL ADMIT THAT YOU MAY BE RIGHT.  HOWEVER, IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE 1ST SEAL JUDGMENT IS TAKING PLACE RIGHT NOW.  CONCERNING THE 1ST SEAL JUDGMENT AND THE WHITE HORSE RIDER, REV. 6:2 SAYS, "A CROWN WAS GIVEN UNTO HIM: AND HE WENT FORTH CONQUERING, AND TO CONQUER."
 
WE BOTH BELIEVE THAT OBAMA IS THE ANTICHRIST AND THE WHITE HORSE RIDER.  HAS THIS 1ST SEAL BEEN ALREADY OPENED WITH OBAMA'S DEALINGS?  FIRST, HE "GOES FORTH".  HE SEEMS TO SPEND ALMOST AS MUCH TIME OVERSEAS AS HE DOES IN THE U.S.  IT IS BECAUSE HIS NEW WORLD ORDER AGENDA IS TO PREPARE THE WAY FOR ONE-WORLD GOVERNMENT.  HE IS CONQUERING THE MINDS AND HEARTS OF MILLIONS, ESPECIALLY THE MUSLIMS, WORLDWIDE BY HIS ACTIONS AND HIS WORDS, AND HIS IDEOLOGIES.
 
THE WORD "CONQUER" IN THE GREEK MEANS "TO SUBDUE", TO OVERCOME, TO PREVAIL, AND TO GET THE VICTORY.  HE IS "CONQUERING", OR DESTROYING, THE UNITED STATES FROM WITHIN.  HE IS "SUBDUING" THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE AND THE CONGRESS.  HE WON THE "VICTORY" IN 2008.  HE WILL "OVERCOME" AND "PREVAIL", IN EARLY 2012, WHEN HE GETS THE "VICTORY", ONCE AGAIN, BY BECOMING THE NEW WORLD ORDER DICTATOR.
 
YES, IT IS MY PERSONAL OPINION THAT OBAMA IS FULFILLING THE 1ST SEAL JUDGMENT, AND WILL CONTINUE TO FULFILL IT AFTER THE RAPTURE.  HIS "CONQUERING" IS NOT JUST THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS.  HIS INTENT IS TO "SUBDUE" EVERYONE, WITH THE MARK OF THE BEAST SYSTEM, MILITARILY, POLITICALLY, IDEOLOGICALLY, AND ECONOMICALLY.  SOME OF HIS CONQUERING IS FUTURE, AND SOME IS WELL UNDER WAY TODAY.  THAT IS WHY I BELIEVE THE OPENING OF THE 1ST SEAL JUDGMENT HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE. 
 
How can we know the Resurrection/Rapture will have already happened?  One sure way!!! >>> Jesus, who has been our Advocate before the Father while the Accuser (Satan) has been 'accusing us day & night', will no longer need to be our Advocate when the Accuser is no longer accusing!  He will descend from Heaven with a shout and we will ascend to the throne room, stand before God, receive our crowns, cast them at His feet, and the Lion of Judah, the Root of David will begin to break open the Seals of Judgment against those on Earth.
 
In other words, I believe the appointed time of the opening of the Seals has not yet happened.  The white horse rider of Seal #1 has NOT yet "gone forth conquering."   The reason we know this is by identification of WHO he will go forth to conquer.  He will go forth in unbridled rage to conquer the Jews and the (tribulation) saints when he is thwarted from going after the Jewish Remnant who will be protected by God when they flee from the Abomination.
 
That's how I know the "First Seal" has not yet been opened.  But I am curious as to how you arrived at your "timeline.".
 
SHERRY, I BELIEVE STRONGLY IN PROGRESSIVE REVELATION.  I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT YOU, NOR I, NOT ANYONE, CAN FIGURE IT ALL OUT IN ADVANCE.  END-TIME BIBLE PROPHECY IS NOT BEING FULFILLED THE WAY MOST OF US THOUGHT IT WOULD.  I BELIEVE THAT WAY TOO MANY BIBLE PROPHECY WATCHERS ARE TRYING TO PUT GOD IN A BOX, ACCORDING TO THEIR PRE-CONCEIVED IDEAS ON HOW GOD HAS TO FULLFILL PROPHECY.  THEY ARE VERY SINCERE IN THEIR BELIEFS.  I HAD TO SET MANY OF MY SINCERE BELIEFS THAT I WAS TAUGHT ASIDE, AND LET PROGRESSIVE REVELATION TAKE ITS COURSE.
 
MY RESPONSES IN THIS POST HAVE NOT BEEN AN ATTEMPT TO SHOW THAT I AM RIGHT, AND THAT YOU ARE WRONG.  I READILY ADMIT THE BELIEFS THAT I HAVE SET FORTH IN THIS POST COULD BE WRONG (EXCEPT FOR OBAMA BEING THE ANTICHRIST).  I READILY ADMIT THAT MANY OF YOUR INTERPRETATIONS MAY BE RIGHT.  WHEN IT COMES TO INTERPRETING THE BOOK OF REVELATION, NO TWO PEOPLE THAT I HAVE RUN ACROSS HAVE THE EXACT SAME INTERPRETATIONS. 
 
THE MOST IMPORTANT BIBLE PROPHECY, THAT ALMOST ALL WATCHERS CAN AGREE ON, IS THAT WE ARE LIVING IN EXTREMELY EXCITING TIMES, AS WE ALL ANTICIPATE BEING WITH JESUS FOREVER IN THE VERY, VERY NEAR FUTURE.  WHAT AN EXCITING DAY TO BE A BIBLICAL WATCHMAN!  WHEN WE ALL GET TO HEAVEN, WE WILL ALL AGREE ON ONE VERY IMPORTANT SUBJECT.  IT WAS BETTER TO HAVE BEEN READY, THAN TO HAVE BEEN RIGHT.  LET'S ALL BE READY!!!
 
THE LORD WILL THEN SHOW US WHO WAS RIGHT ABOUT EACH INTERPRETATION.  NO MATTER HOW WRONG OR RIGHT EACH OF US WERE, ALL THAT WILL HAVE MATTERED IS THAT WE WERE READY. 
 
Ron Reese
 
 
Until.....Sherry Vance