Carolla,
In my post of yesterday that was up at the same time
with your question about why demons in hell are not
themselves being punished or tormented but are the ones
doing the tormenting, I debated with myself when I
posted that about whether to include that subject and
answer because it was partially covered the next
paragraph but I decided not to for brevity's sake.
So I'm glad you asked this. Below is the continuation of
my thoughts picking up just before I left off in my last
post but before I put that, I will also include this
portion where I cover that question you raised
specifically:
______________________________
The Reality Of Hell –
And Demons As Tormentors There
There have been
some interesting books, videos, documentaries, etc.,
which feature testimonies by people who claim that
Jesus has taken them out of their bodies and given
them tours of heaven and of hell. I was sometimes
skeptical of such reports. One of the things that
used to disturb me about these reports was that
demons seemed to be in charge to some degree, of
these hellish realms, according to many of these
accounts. I wondered why that should be since demons
are very evil themselves. So why should they not be
getting punished at least as much as the humans that
were there? Then one day it occurred to me that
according to Enoch, these demons were brought about
when fallen angels mated with human women and the
offspring that were produced were ultimately to
become the demons. This would mean that these
unfortunate beings never even had a chance to make
any kind of choice of their own. Their fallen
fathers made it for them. They were given over to
evil from the moment they were conceived. It would
seem to make sense then, that a God who is just,
would give them a place in hell that is a bit less
severe than being there for punishment themselves.
They are still there, for sure, but they are there,
at least in some cases, as the meters out of
punishment.
It almost reminds
one of the Frankenstein’s Monster story by Mary
Shelly. (That must be one of the most remade film
stories of all time, next to the story of Christ.
Kind of interesting, isn’t it?) One of the most
interesting treatments of that story was the one
that came out in 1994, with Robert De Niro as the
monster. In this rendering, the monster is much more
eloquent than usual and able to explain his great
wrath against the one who made him and against
mankind in general. He hates mankind because he is
different and evil and ugly and so he takes his
vengeance out on every person he can. I have a
feeling that demons feel this way.
Demons also feel
that God is unfair to them. Even though it was never
God who did anything evil to them, but rather their
own fallen angel fathers. Yet God would not give His
Earth to them to destroy totally, but brought
judgment against them and their fathers. Therefore,
demons hate God. And they hate man because he is
made in God’s image. They are ruthless, sadistic
torturers and tormentors using every vile thing
imaginable to make their victims on earth and in
hell suffer. If a man is so foolish as to want to be
with demons and Satan, then God gives him over to
them.
Man has something
unique that demons desperately envy and desire to
obtain as a reward. That is a man’s soul. The
ultimate goal of these evil creatures is more than
merely making one’s earthly life miserable, but to
bring you down to hell forever, where they will
torment you there from then on. Our soul is from God
but can be lost to Satan and when that happens, it
is the greatest of ironies. God created us to be
uniquely with Him and therefore Satan’s kingdom has
no higher trophy than a person’s soul.
As strange as it is
to ponder this, these demon creatures have no soul.
Our soul is given to us directly from God Himself,
when He breathed into Adam’s nostrils after forming
him from the dust of the ground.
Genesis 2:7. And
the Lord God formed man of the dust of the
ground, and breathed into his nostrils the
breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The union between a
human and a fallen angel produces a kind of
offspring that has a spirit, like the angels, that
is immortal, but a body like their
human mothers, that is mortal. Many
stories of old were told of these “half god / half
man, hybrid beings. Their bodies died in the flood
of Noah, and ever since then, they have roamed this
planet as disembodied spirits looking for a body to
get into again.
Jim Morrison’s “Dead
Indians”
The late rock star,
Jim Morrison, lead singer for the 60’s band “The
Doors,” claimed that when he was young and his
family was traveling across the desert in Arizona, I
believe it was, or Nevada, there was a traffic
accident and several Indians were killed. Their
bodies were there in the road and as they drove
slowly past this, Morrison claims that he could see
the “spirits of these dead Indians all standing
around and they came into me and are still there…”
If this is true, and I believe him, then these are
not in fact the actual human spirits of those
Indians, but rather the demon spirits that were
living in the bodies of those Indians. Upon the
deaths of their hosts, they were left without a
human body to inhabit so they chose young Jim
Morrison and eventually made him a rock star.
Jesus spoke very
matter-of-factly of these evil spirits and He knew
that His audience knew of what spirits He was
speaking.
Luke
11:20. But
if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no
doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
21. When
a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods
are in peace:
22. But
when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and
overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour
wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
23. He
that is not with me is against me: and he that
gathereth not with me scattereth.
24. When
the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he
walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and
finding none, he saith, I will return unto my
house whence I came out.
25. And
when he cometh, he findeth it swept and
garnished.
26. Then
goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits
more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and
dwell there: and the last state of that man is
worse than the first.
There is so much
being stated in just this small bit of scripture
that we will not be able to cover it all as
thoroughly as it could be, but briefly, He is saying
this: The kingdom of God is here on earth to take
back from Satan what he has usurped away from God
and man by deceit. Satan holds onto what he has
conquered both by continued deceit, and by
brute-force strength. Jesus is more powerful than
Satan and therefore is able to overcome all the
works of darkness in any life that will allow Him
in. He brings in truth to overcome the deceit, and
He brings in power and authority to rid the evil
spirits and their influence from one’s life. Jesus
gives each of us the choice of masters, saying
John
8:31. Then
said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him,
If ye continue in my word, then are ye my
disciples indeed;
32. And
ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall
make you free.
33. They
answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were
never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye
shall be made free?
34. Jesus
answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Jesus is the only
one who can conquer Satan. Jesus has the only power
and authority that can cast demons out of someone.
But after demons have been cast out of someone, that
person still has a choice whether to follow Jesus or
not. And if they do not make Jesus Lord of their
life, then that demon that was cast out, will go
looking for another person to get into and will not
find one so easily. Therefore, they return to where
they were before, but bring more demons with
themselves and that person ends up worse off than
when they started. The reason they brought more
demons is probably because they figure there is
greater strength in greater numbers. Jesus didn’t
say why they do this so that’s just speculation. It
would make sense though that this demon would not
want to be cast out again so easily.
The point I am
wishing to make here is simply that we have a choice
in this life to make. That choice is between these
two kingdoms. Every one of us is either helping
Jesus to gather souls into His heavenly kingdom, or
else we are helping Satan to scatter people away
from God and consequently into hell.
__________________________________________________________
(Picking up from where I left off in my last post):
Now, we see that it
comes down to which one does the man believe, right?
And this is exactly where we find ourselves. God
told us that to disobey Him is death. Satan says
that to disobey God is to find freedom and
happiness. It is up to each of us to choose whom to
believe.
From my song,
“Without Excuse”:
“We have two
choices for what we believe, the words of our
maker; or what the serpent told Eve…”
Not only this, but
we are also given time and opportunity to
investigate the two who are trying to persuade us.
The host, who is telling us the correct answer and
the detractor, who is lying. We have a track record
of each of these and we are invited to put each to
the test and see which is the more likely to be
telling the truth. If after all of this, we are
still foolish enough to choose the wrong answer,
then what could have been done more for us, I ask
you?
Once again, this
explains why demons have it better than most others
in hell. Because they are the only inhabitants in
hell who never had a chance at heaven. Fallen angels
probably have it worst of all because they were in
heaven already and chose to leave. That’s even worse
than us who have a promise of heaven but have yet to
actually experience it, and must take it by faith.
But this also explains why our reward for that faith
is so great. Jesus said, Blessed are those who have
not seen and yet believe… Somehow, our reward for
faith will set us up even higher than those angels
were that fell. I can’t hardly wait.
Yes, there will be
some places in hell worse than others. Bill Wiese
said that as bad off as he knew he was, there were
others there who were far worse off than he was. For
example, there was a lake of fire burning there and
there were people in the flames burning and
screaming and trying to get out. But every time one
of them might get out, a demon would come and throw
them right back in again. Bill said he was grateful
that he was not in their predicament. Just as there
are degrees of rewards in heaven, there are degrees
of punishment in hell. All based upon what people
did with what was given them here on earth.
Jesus spoke of
someone who sinned against small children that were
believing in Him and said that it would have been
better for that person to have a millstone to be
hanged around his neck and thrown into the sea than
to have done that. Well, if he had died with the
millstone around his neck, he’s still dead and in
hell, but his punishment for merely dying away from
Christ is far less severe than for him having harmed
small children who believe in Jesus. But also there
is reward for even the smallest deed, that is done
in faith:
Mark 9:38. And
John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one
casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth
not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth
not us.
39. But
Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in my name, that can
lightly speak evil of me.
40. For
he that is not against us is on our part.
41. For
whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink
in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily
I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42. And
whosoever shall offend one of these little ones
that believe in me, it is better for him that a
millstone were hanged about his neck, and he
were cast into the sea.
43. And
if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is
better for thee to enter into life maimed, than
having two hands to go into hell, into the fire
that never shall be quenched:
44. Where
their worm dieth not, and the fire is not
quenched.
45. And
if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is
better for thee to enter halt into life, than
having two feet to be cast into hell, into the
fire that never shall be quenched:
46. Where
their worm dieth not, and the fire is not
quenched.
47. And
if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is
better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God
with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast
into hell fire:
48. Where
their worm dieth not, and the fire is not
quenched.
Those are strong
words from Jesus and we do well to heed them. To me,
rather than literally cutting off a hand or plucking
out an eye, what Jesus is saying here is do like I
did when I got rid of my record collection. Those
stupid records were an offense to me. They were
getting between me and the purpose for which God
made me, which was to have fellowship with God. I
see that very clearly now. But at the time I was
contemplating it, those records were as difficult
for me to part with as my eye would be or my hand.
Nevertheless, I had to do it in order to know God.
If that is the choice, then by all means do it
because it is so worth it. There simply would not
have been time for Jesus to try and go down a
laundry list of possible things in life that we
could get hung up on that could keep us from God. So
instead, Jesus chose some graphic examples that we
all would be able to relate to. Our own body parts.
He never meant that cutting off your hand could get
you saved, okay? I have heard some try to suggest
that these verses will come into play during the
tribulation period and people have taken the mark of
the beast and then want to repent and will cut off
their hand with the mark in it to be saved or pluck
out the eye that has been digitally scanned for
identification in the beast system. Thank God, I
won’t be here to see if that ever does become
significant with these verses. Compared to all that,
burning my records was easy. The point is, it was
hard for me at the time, but worth it all the way in
the long run.
Mary K. Baxter is a
woman who, like Bill Wiese, has written a book about
having been taken by Jesus into hell and then told
by Jesus to warn others. Her book is called, “A
Divine Revelation Of Hell”. She mentions that there
are different degrees of severity to the suffering
that she saw there. In one example, she describes a
way in which people who were deceived are getting
revenge against the people who deceived them into
joining and participating in satanic occult
practices while on Earth. In that case, it would
obviously be worse to be a deceiver of others, such
as a leader in false religion or cults or occult
things, than to have only been deceived yourself.
This caused me to
wonder about the many examples of victims and their
tormentors on earth and how things might be reversed
in hell. Would murderers and rapists be at the mercy
of their victims for eternity in hell? If their
victims are not saved, that is. Imagine some mob hit
man who has killed many or assassinated many during
his life. Will they be waiting for him when he
arrives as part of his punishment?
Just like an
episode of The Twilight Zone, in which a retired
German officer from a WW2 Nazi, prisoner of war
camp, returned years later to visit his abandoned
camp after the war. Suddenly, he sees his victims
one by one coming and reminding him of all that he
had done to them there, and he begins to be
tormented and driven insane by them. When he asks
for mercy, he is reminded that he showed none and
therefore will be shown none, etc.