Doves,
Here is something to ponder on that most of us haven't explored, and that is, where are our dead relatives who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior being kept? Where do they now reside while they wait for the final resolution within the end times scenario?
The obvious answer that would come from 90+% of the answer-es would be that they are in heaven.
I myself have been programmed to say this after hearing countless pastors, priests and lay people proclaim this at funerals and calling hours over my 70 years here on earth.
In fact, last week I performed the eulogy for a close friend of mine who had recently died. And I as well talked about him now being in heaven...... but was my premise a reality.....was it a true? Is my close friend now in heaven?
After researching the bible within the last few days I would now have to say that I was wrong and it's now my belief that so are all those who promote this as theory or fact.
I have come to this conclusion because of what God clearly states from His word in the bible. In John 3:13 He states....
…..”No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven”......
If God is stating that no one but Jesus has ascended to heaven then why are we promoting the idea that millions of (the dead in Christ) Christians have?
The assumption that our dead loved ones are presently wandering around heaven and looking down on us I believe was generated in 2 Corinthians 5 where one partial verse says.....”absent from the body and present with the Lord”. But when taken in context what I believe that verse really says is by faith, we are confident, and very pleased to believe that someday we will be present with the Lord.
If one looks at the first part of this chapter in 2 Corinthians 5 God talks about our now earthly human “tent”(our body), the thing that now surrounds our soul being someday changed into “a building”. Changed not by human hands but by God into an eternal building.
I love the words God uses here.....He compares our now body to a “tent” and our future composition as to a “building”. Obviously when one compares the World Trade Center to a tent there is quite a differential.......as there will be when we get our new compositions / enclosures / bodies for our souls.
And we know that our transformation (mortal to immortal bodies) does not occur until Jesus comes for us within the end time scenario. So again....where are the souls of the dead in Christ now being housed if not in heaven?
Let me add a little more scripture information to shed a little more light on the matter.
Paul the apostle says about the followers of Christ in 1 Corinthians 11:30 and 1 Corinthians 15:18, 1 Corinthians 15:22, 1 Thessalonians 4:13, 1 Thessalonians 4:14, and 1 Thessalonians 4:15........ that the followers of Christ who are dead.....are asleep.......those who sleep in Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:14)
So it's obvious to me that the souls of the dead in Christ are asleep. Are asleep somewhere in a safe place....... and they have no concept of time.
Another clue is given to us in 1 Thessalonians 4:14. There we see that it's God the Father that brings with Him those that sleep in Jesus.
Brings them where? As per 1 Thessalonians 4:15.....to the coming of the Lord scenario here on earth....and with all that that entails.
Where specifically on earth does He, the Father, bring those that sleep in Jesus? As per Zechariah 14 He brings them to the Father's new kingdom which will be established here on earth (during the 7 year tribulation period) a new enclosed ark like enclosure between the Mediterranean Sea and the Euphrates River as was prophesied by Jesus in “The Lords Prayer”.....thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it was in heaven.....
So this still doesn't explain where the dead in Christ are now..... if not in heaven. Are there any other scripture references as to where the souls of the dead in Christ are now / are being safely kept? I believe there is. In the book of Habakkuk the prophet in chapter 3 foresees the coming period of time when The Father and Jesus come to earth during the tribulation period or the terrible period proclaimed as “The Day of the Lord”.
Here in chapter 3, Habakkuk says that just prior to The Father and Jesus coming to earth for the end time scenario and all that that is composed of...... that The Father was then located at Teman and Jesus was at that time located at Mount Paran.
So if this is where the Father and Son are located just prior to Their coming to earth for the tribulation period and that the Father as per 1 Thessalonians 4 is to bring the dead in Christ (those who sleep in Jesus) with Him when He comes.......would it be a stretch if I assumed that the souls of the dead in Christ are now being safely kept in a place called Teman??.....wherever that may be located. Wherever Teman is I am sure it's out of Satan's evil reach and within the security zone of the Father and His angels.
Jesus said in John 3 that no one could see or enter the kingdom of God (Heaven) unless they were born again of the water and the Spirit. And it's become very obvious to me that it's a special water and a special Spirit that Jesus was referring to. It's His water, His blood and His Spirit that all Christians will have to be exposed to in order to be “born again”enabling us to see and enter the kingdom of God (heaven).
In 1 John 5:1-8 John describes the three that “bear witness”to all truth in heaven. They are The Father, The Word and The Spirit....and these three are one.
John also there describes the three that “bear witness”here on earth. They are the Spirit, the water and the blood.....and these agree as one. But not just any spirit, water and blood......it's Jesus's water, blood and Spirit that bears witness and agrees as one.
And it's these holy commodities that Jesus's followers dead or alive have to be exposed to in order to be born again and to qualify for our immortal bodies so that we can then see and enter the kingdom of God.
I have told you all before how we will all accomplish this being born again by these three holy components but for anyone new on 5Doves I will tell you again.
We, the alive in Christ will be gathered by Jesus and the angels (Matthew 24) and as per 1 Thessalonians 4 the dead in Christ will be brought by The Father when He comes to establish His new temporary kingdom in the Middle East. A kingdom as per Zechariah which will extend from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates River including Jerusalem. Hundreds of square miles. And as per Isaiah this new kingdom will be a fortified structure like a mountain.... with a roof. It will be an ark-like enclosure..... like the days of Noah (Matthew 24:37) affording maximum security for it's occupants. As per Daniel 12 it will be guarded by Michael the arc angel and his forces.
Zechariah says in chapter 14 that in the process of creating this new kingdom the Father steps on the Mount of Olives and a new river is created.....a river which as per Zechariah contains “living waters”. Isaiah says of this river in chapter 12 that it contains the “wells of salvation”.
It appears that this new river's source is the exact spot where Jesus was crucified. The exact spot where Jesus was stabbed in the side causing water and blood to fall on the ground there. The exact spot as per John 19:30 where Jesus gave up His Spirit there when He died for our sins.
Again from my above text.......What did John in 1 John 5 say were the three that bear witness on earth.....the Spirit, the water and the blood. All of which will be contained within this new river which will emanate from the crucifixion site.
And in order for Jesus's church to “bear witness”to what He did for us on the cross we will need to be immersed in these “living waters”which contain all three components that are necessary as per John to “bear witness”. And in doing so we will have been “born again” just as Jesus mandated (twice) in John 3 as a prerequisite for seeing or entering the kingdom of God.
And speaking of bearing witness...... the time line of this baptism, this immersion appears to be at the end of the ministry of the two end time witnesses or half way through the 7 year period. Meaning that these two witnesses will be there within this new valley / massive enclosure to ..yes..witness the fruits of their own labor, or those people who accepted the gospel of the kingdom due to their (the two witnesses) testaments while they preached on earth for nearly 1260 days......just prior to their own “temporary” deaths on the streets of Jerusalem.
Not only will these two end time witnesses bear witness to their own new converts being “born again” in the living waters of the new river but also they will bear witness to all of the dead and alive in Christ being “born again” in these wells of salvation / living waters as well.
And after this huge multi-million person baptism in the “living waters” of this river is complete....all these people will officially be The Bride of Christ. As such, The Father will then throw a huge party in their honor described in the bible as The Marriage Supper of the Lamb.
As per Isaiah 25:6....within this mountain...meaning within this new arc-like enclosure, “the Lord of hosts” will host a dinner party for the bride of His Son.
And as per verse 6 the menu for this party consists of.....
A feast of choice pieces,
A fest of wines on the lees,
Of fat things full of marrow,
Of well-refined wines on the lees.
For those who question The Father actually being there....read Isaiah 12 which speaks to these events and the last verse states....”For great is the Holy One of Israel (the Father) in your midst”
And then the next day, after The Marriage Supper of the Lamb, (as is foreshadowed in the Book of Joshua) Jesus will as per Isaiah 25:7 remove part of the covering of this arc-like enclosure and hearken to His church to rise and meet Him in the clouds above this enclosure. In the process of doing so we will be changed, in the twinkling of an eye, from mortal to immortal, and then leave with Jesus and be taken to a place He has prepared for us for the remainder of the 7 year period.
Then, at the end of the 7 years, as per Revelation 19 Jesus riding a white horse will return to earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords accompanied by the armies of heaven to make war against the forces of evil that have controlled the earth. The beast and the false prophet will be captured and cast into the lake of fire and the rest were killed due to the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse.
Are we, His bride, included in those armies of heaven that accompany Him to earth to eradicate the evil as He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God? It doesn't say one way or the other. My guess is that He will not want His bride in any way harmed or shocked by the horror of it all.... so I am guessing His bride will set this one out.
Blessings Doves..........John B