Arlene (24 Feb 2012) 
"Re: Michael Colunga's response to Bruce Warner..."

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Hi Michael and all the Doves....

I carefully read your reply about Bruce Warner's view of the shortened Tribulation, which is the Time of Jacob's Trouble....Jeremiah 30:7. Everything was "clicking" in the appropriate areas of my brain in understanding your view of what scripture says. BUT, I came to where you said, "Since the time after the Rapture is the time of Jacob's trouble, if any goyim are saved, they must become Jews". I had to re-read that one a few times to see if that is actually what you said.

There is nowhere in the bible where it says that during this last 3 1/2 years, 42 months, or 1260 days that people must revert to the Old Testament Jewish law. Yes, they must have faith in Jesus Christ and keep the commandments of God. We are now living in the age of Grace....Ephesians 2:8. However, after the rapture of the "bride", those who remain on earth during those years must live by! a gospel of faith plus works again. The Book of James is addressed to "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad". So, this is during the time of Jacob's Trouble. This time is not to convert Christians to Judaism, nor is it possible to become a "Jew" if you were not born one (Tribe of Judah). Read James 2:18. Also read I John 2:4, 3:22, 3:24, and 5:2....this is during those 3 1/2 years. This is what is meant by "rightly dividing the word of truth" in II Tim. 2:15, which some newer bible versions have removed.

The gentiles (goyim) are the "branches" grafted into the "tree", whose Root is Jesus Christ. We do not become the tree...we are just grafted in. Rev. 12:17 and 14:12 define the people who are persecuted during this time. When God talks about the "seed of Abraham"(Rom.4:16 and Rom.9:8) He is not talking about the Jews....He is talking about Jesus Christ. All who are "in Jesus Christ" are the seed (no! t seeds) of Abraham. Those people in the Tribulation, including the Jews, must convert to belief in Jesus Christ for salvation. The Jews did not accept Jesus Christ when He came the first time....but they will when He returns.

If I am incorrect in this, I apologize. I didn't intend to post anything today, but I couldn't let this pass...

YsiC,

Arlene

Arlene,

I was taken aback at how well your response was, and I can say that I wholeheartedly agree with you 100 % !

We see in Ro. 11 that they can fall away.

⁵ Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.( remnant of Jews)

¹⁷ And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

¹⁸ Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

¹⁹ Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

²⁰ Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

²¹ For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.

²² Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

²³ And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

²⁴ For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?

What is pre-

carious about Paul's early Epistles ( Romans through galatians), is that he is going to the Jews first in all his journeys at this time. You will see some doctrine that reflects remission of sins of the past ONLY, with some parts of complete grace. In his prison Epistles( Ephesians through Philemon ), we see no distinction between jew nor gentile believers, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit and they have  total redemption through His blood NOW. In the Jewish general epistles and early acts we see that they only have redemption when they enter heaven .

This is more proof of a pre-tribulation rapture...the confusion that would be upon the world by not removing the church would devastate any credibility and testimony of tribulation believers.

This stresses the need for right division of the Gospel (s )

Great job

Alan T