Hi Barry
If so many different people say this is what the Bible says or that is what the Bible says which one do you believe? Like you say they both have or at least say they have the Holy Spirit. Since we are in the time right before the last days then wouldn't we need to be careful of the ones who say that God talked directly to them in dreams and visions ESPECIALLY when they have been wrong so many times? I am not being sarcastic or judgmental but I am just looking for the truth.
Doesn't it make since that God has a plan and that it seems pretty obvious, at least to me anyway, that God is not done with Israel and that the rapture will start God's program with Israel back.
I don't know, that is why I ask. I just do not get these people who claim to have dreams and visions and they come up short. Surely God is trying to tell us something.
thanks,
________
 
 
 
Hi _____,
I certainly sympathize with you on that. I too have been disappointed by the number of false predictions made by people who said Jesus told them in dreams, visions, out of body experiences or near death experiences etc that the rapture was going to happen and then it did not. Do you remember Dr. Richard Eby? He wrote some books and claimed he had NDE experiences with Jesus and he said that Jesus told him that he was going to still be alive, active and still working at his family doctor practice when the rapture happened. Well, I watched from that time that I first heard of him and read his books until word came over these very posts on the Five Doves because Jim Bramlett who posts often was in personal contact with this man or knew someone who was and he was reporting to us all of how close we must be to the rapture because Dr. Eby was getting old and since we all know that the rapture has to be before he dies therefore we must be close etc. Well, he became sick and in bed and finally died and we were still here. So then many began to say that it must mean that after he dies we will be soon raptured or that it must be that it will be that same year but not right away.... I was saying, Hey wait a minute, how can we still be putting any weight on what this man said at all because it failed!?
There was another guy right at that time who had a NDE in an underwater cave he was exploring and he got lost and was sure he was going to die and he prayed for help to Jesus and a light appeared to him and he met Jesus and came out alive and it was all in the news and everything. But he said that Jesus gave him a vision of the end and that the rapture was before the year 2000. At the time that was a year or two away. We were all excited then too until the year 2000 came and we were still here. Then the forever believing types came out to post that maybe what he meant was by the END of 2000 so it could be that we have to wait but 2000 will not end before we get raptured.
There was a lady who wrote a book and published it herself at her own expense and gave it away for free to anyone who requested it (which I did) and she said God showed her that we would be raptured by Summer of 2007 which was three years away when she started and when no rapture came by Summer 2007 she said God didn't really say Summer, but she assumed it was Summer because in her vision the rapture happened while she and her family were enjoying their swimming pool but since they use their pool well past the Summer because she lives in Southern California and it can stay warm late in the year so we should not lose hope. But 2007 finally went past too and she had to shamefully admit that she was wrong and take down her website amidst much ridicule from detractors. And these are just the most blatant examples but there have been scores of lesser examples (or not so lesser as in Harold Camping) of people claiming God showed them some bit of inside info and that the rapture is such and such a day or that planet X is coming by Tuesday and the world will blow up and we better be ready and every one of them has been wrong...
So what are we to do?
_____, I do know you are sincere and I'm with you 100% on the frustration of it all. Let me share with you why I believe it must be so ambiguous instead of God coming right out and announcing to us exactly when the rapture will be. I believe it is because we are like oh, it just came to me... Did you see the movie Argo? If not, you may want to rent it and watch it to understand what I'm going to say here. I found that title to be most interesting because the name Argo is very significant to us who are watching for Jesus because of the story of Jason (same name as Jesus in another language) and the Argonauts etc. That originates from the Star Gospel which I don't have time to go into and I hope I don't lose you on this but let me just say I don't think they chose that name by accident. (One word of warning there is strong language in that film and very blasphemous as the devil gets his digs in but God will have the last laugh... It's how they keep referring to it as "Argo f___ yourself". Somewhere they probably understand the deeper meaning which I hope to explain to you) The true story of the movie is that a group of Americans are trapped in hostile territory and must be rescued by Americans pretending to be a film crew making a movie and get them out safely before anyone can stop them. The trapped Americans are you and me right now in this world. The ones coming to rescue us are Jesus (Jason, Joshua same name different languages) and His angels but just like in that movie, He is coming into hostile territory and must use stealth and tactics of warfare. Surprise is a must and even we can know only that it is close but not know exactly when and therefore must be ready to go on a moments notice. They chose the name for their fake movie ARGO because of the deeper meaning of that from mythology that goes back to the Gospel in the Stars of Jason and the Argonauts seeking the golden fleece and though I'm no expert of the mythology I do know that it is a veiled story of Jesus rescuing us in the ship Argo.
Anyway, I was suddenly made to think of that movie as an example of the way Jesus will rescue us even before I realized again the significance of the name and all that. But just that we are in a war zone type atmosphere and Jesus must not let the devil know when He will be coming and that is why it remains a mystery to us too. Apparently if the devil knows when, he plans to try and stop it in any way he can and there is going to be some strategy of the devil to try and stop us from getting raptured. Remember when Joshua took Jericho there were giants that the Israelites were afraid of? What could they represent for us? Part of warfare is to give false info to your enemy so that he keeps spending valuable resources on wild goose chases too. Very often the false info is known to be false only to the top highest need to know few and even the ones carrying out the false pretense are left to think that what they are doing is the real deal. (I'm getting this as I'm typing it so consider yourself favored as I also feel to be learning this from God right now.) But even the false drills are like practice runs for us and training like a fire drill when we were kids at school and when that alarm went off you didn't question it but got right up and filed out single file until the safe bell rang and we knew it was just a drill. If ever it was really a fire and that alarm went off, we would not have panicked because we would have been through this before and would know what to do to be safe. Just think if the people in one of those horrible night club fires we've all heard of had known to stay calm and file out single file and the first ones serve as guide to the last ones on the way out to safety a single file would have gotten everyone out safely. But because they panicked they all ran to the only exit at once and crushed each other no one got out hardly.
There have been times when I feel like Jesus wants to tell me even more than I want to know what to expect and how soon to expect Him but He is not able to lest He give the devil too much valuable information that may cause trouble for even one of His saints that He wants to rescue out of here. It must be sudden and absolutely commited to once underway. Hesitation is not an option and yet many will hesitate and be not ready and be left here. Far better to go through a hundred practice drills and be disappointed than to not go through any practice drills and not be ready when the real one finally comes.
I agree that once we are gone, God will again deal with Israel and that many who are now called Christians will be left here and will still be saved "yet so as by fire" of the tribulation and will be treated as part of Israel just like before there was a church. Jesus spoke of removing the candlestick from its place
Revelation 2:
5. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
So, we won't know exactly when at all but only that it is close or soon - words that are so open to interpretation so as to be almost useless except that they do convey a need to be ready at all times and so I am and remain so every day. For one of these times it will not be a drill but the real escape once and for all.
As far as how do I know which Bible interpretation is right or not, that comes down to listening to the Holy Spirit directly which I have learned to do over my lifetime and have had to exercise that ability like any exercise to strengthen something. But I can give you a huge clue as to why some get knowledge from the Holy Spirit and some do not. It is in 2 Peter:
2 Peter 1
1. Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2. Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3. According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6. And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7. And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9. But he that lacketh these things is blind, [LAODICEAN] and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11. For so an entrance [RAPTURE] shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
 
 
What this is saying _____, is that in order to add knowledge we must first add to our faith virtue and only then can we add to our virtue the knowledge that will enable us to enter into the kingdom. Many have skipped over the virtue and therefore cannot add knowledge and have remained blind leaders and blind followers together leading each other to a pit.
If you have stayed with me this far and would like to know what my idea of what virtue is I'll gladly share that with you too so let me know what you think.