Hi:Thanks for your kind words. It is sure nice to be appreciated. I like discussing different viewpoints in a friendly manner. We can both profit by looking up the scriptures to see of we can turn up any other clues.> > You say there may be two raptures; referencing the Noah and Lot accounts, both alluding to a rapture, a first and a second.Yes, but you are in good company, expecting one Rapture. Most people seem to only be able to see one Rapture in Scripture. They disagree with one another over whether it is before the Tribulation, Mid-Trib, or at the end of the Tribulation.Most think I Thess 4:16,17 and I Cor 15:51-54 are talking about the same event. I think they are talking about a First-Trumpet Rapture and a Last-Trump Rapture. Only at the last Rapture will the whole Body of Christ become immortal, so there is a difference.Without considering Noah and Lot, I feel certain that there are two Raptures. Here is my reasoning. The wise virgins are taken the first time, and the Lord wouldn’t leave the foolish virgins out entirely to suffer the Wrath of God. That Rapture happens after the Day of God’s Wrath has come (Rev 6:17). The Day of God’s Wrath will come at 6 PM on our previous day. However, the wrath will start at noon. Amos_8:9 says, “And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at NOON, and I will darken the earth in the clear day. That ties in with Rev 6:12. It says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood”. Zep_2:4 says, “For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON day, and Ekron shall be rooted up.”The first Rapture takes place before Jesus is given the seven-sealed Title Deed of the Earth. No seals have been broken. The second Rapture is after the 6th seal is broken.> > I personally do not see another rapture, even in the tribulation, as I see the tribulation saints to be of the Jews only, and not of any of the Gentile church,Rev 7 starts out with a description of the 144,000 Israelites. Then Rev 7:9 includes another multitude so great that no one can count them. They include the saved of all nations during the Great Tribulation. It says, “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, OF ALL NATIONS, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands”.In the first Rapture, the saints are ready. They are wearing white robes. In the second Rapture, the saints have had to wash their robes in the blood of Christ to make them clean and white. Therefore, I think that group includes the foolish virgins”.THE SECRETS OF WISDOM HAVE BEEN PLAYED OUT PREVIOUSLYJob 11:6 says, “the secrets of wisdom, that they are double (or duplicate) to that which is!”Ecc_3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.”THE TYPE: THE LORD TOLD MOSES TO MAKE TWO SILVER TRUMPETS FOR THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLYNum 10:1-4 says, “the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them (i.e., both) for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them (i.e., both), ALL the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with ONE trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee.”FIRST-TRUMP RAPTUREAt the first trump, the 24 elders of Israel will be caught up to Heaven in the First-Trump Rapture. The 24 elders (12 patriarchs and 12 apostles of Israel) will be caught up. This tales place in Rev 4:1-4. It says, “After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a TRUMPET talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I (John, one of the 24 elders) was (lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (first stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (last stone in the breastplate (i.e., Jesus, God, is both the first and the last, LORD of the Old Testament and Lord of the New Testament): and there was a rainbow (Saturn’s ring system) round about the throne (on Saturn, Eze 1:26-28), in sight like unto an emerald (Judah’s stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah). 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw FOUR AND TWENTY ELDERS (12 patriarchs and 12 apostles, including John) sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.”Along with John and the other 23 elders of Israel, were saints out of every nation. They sang the new song. Rev 5:9 says, “And they (the saints) sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation”.Of the second Rapture, only the 144,000 can sing the NEW SONG.Rev 14:1-5 says, “And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders (the elders were caught up in the 1st Rapture): and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.”1Th 4:13-17 says, “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (Old English for precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first : 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”THE TRUMP OF GODWhen I listen to the various sounds in this video, it seems that there could be trumpets, tubas and maybe shofars. These sounds have been heard at different places around the world. Why? I think the dead in Christ (including my Ed) got their resurrection bodies on Easter/Firstfruits, April 8, 2012. We are counting the Omer now. Sunday was Omer one. An omer measure is 1/10th of an ephah. In Zech 5, an ephah stands for the church that will be moved to Babylon in the land of Shinar. The barley grains in the 40 omers counted to Ascension Day, May 17, 2012 (probably the day of the First-Trump Rapture) seem to represent part of the church, the wise-virgin Philadelphian Bride of Christ.If the wise virgins are raptured in the First-Trump Rapture, there will be a need for a second Rapture. Rom_10:13 says, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”LAST-TRUMP RAPTUREI believe the 144,000 Israelites, the foolish virgins and the saints coming out of the Great Tribulation will be raptured in the Last-Trump Rapture on the Day of God’s Wrath, Sept 14, 2015, the Feast of Trumpets.Rev 7:9-14 says, “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”If there is a last trump, there must be a first trump. 1Co 15:51-53 speaks of the last trump. It says, “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”Both the first and last groups to be raptured become incorruptible, but all, including Paul (one of the 24 elders), only become immortal at the last trump.> > I have been conditioned to believe that Matt. 24: 37-39 is about the second coming of Christ.It doesn’t fit very well. At the Second Advent, Jesus will be riding a white horse, and at least ten thousand of his saints will be following him. There is no Rapture at the Second Advent.> > The Lot account I do believe alludes to the Rapture of the Bride, which comes on the same day as sudden destruction, even as Ron Reese speaks of.I don’t think the sudden destruction will happen until the Day of God’s Wrath. Therefore, I think the last Rapture will be on the day of the sudden destruction.> > I also personally believe that God has ended new seed to be harvested (new converts), even has Jesus said in Jn. 9: 4, and Paul said in 2 Tim. 4: 3, and that Gen. 45: 6 alludes to Daniel's last week, this being two years after the revealing of that man of sin, the son of perdition, who later will become Satan incarnate, whose revealing was on Rosh Hashanah 10/29/08, and two years later being Rosh Hashanah 9/10/10.Although he is the worst president this country has ever had, I don’t think the speech of Oct 29, 2008, revealed the man of sin. He might be one of the ten kings that at the time of the Rapture have not received their kingdom.At the time of the First-Trump Rapture, Rev 17:12-14 says, “And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast (i.e., the False Prophet). 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they (i.e., the just raptured saints) that ARE with him (Jesus) are called, and chosen, and faithful.”Dan 7:2-6 says, “Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea (the great sea is the Mediterranean). 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. 4 The first was like a lion (Babylon II), and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. 5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear (Media-Persia), and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. 6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard (Greece), which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.”Of the first beast, Rev 13:1-12 says, “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea (i.e., the Mediterranean), having seven heads (Babel, fallen, Babylon II, fallen, Media-Persia, fallen, Greece, fallen, Holy Roman Empire, fallen, Ecclesiastical Roman Empire, present now, and Babylon III, soon to come) and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy (Pontifex Maximus, started with Nimrod at the Tower of Babel, and continued on all 7 heads). 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (Media-Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (Babylon): and the dragon (Satan) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads (i.e., the Pope) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? (probably no one)5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven (i.e, the first Rapture has already taken place). 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints (i.e., the foolish virgins that were left behind), and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 11 And I beheld another beast (i.e., Satan) coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns (two comings) like a lamb (Christ), and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.”All the best to you.Agape,Marilyn Agee
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hi Marilyn,Blessings to you in Jesus' name! I so much love to read your posts, as they are very insightful. Please know you are in my thoughts and prayers regarding all that you've been through, even as you have shared. You are truly a blessing!!! Know you're loved very much, because you are!Please take the following I write to you in the spirit of gentleness and in meekness of Christ, as my only desire is to edify, in His holiness.I was reading your response to Mike W's posting regarding the rapture. You say there may be two raptures; referencing the Noah and Lot accounts, both alluding to a rapture, a first and a second. Couldn't the Noah account be alluding to the pouring out of the Holy Spirit upon the whole earth, the water alluding to Him, therefore not a rapture, but a pouring out upon all flesh, even as the water was poured out over all the earth, cleansing the wickedness? I say that, only because of this:In my church-life (47 yrs.) I have been conditioned to believe that Matt. 24: 37-39 is about the second coming of Christ. We see from verse 36 onward that He shifts from the endtime scenario to speak of something else. I am seeing with new eyes that verses 37-39 speak more of Christ's first coming; that as the days of Noe were (a cleansing), so also Jesus came to us, cleansing through the word He spoke (Jn. 15: 3), the blood He shed, and the water (H.S.), even as He flooded the earth, cleansing the wickedness, as also 1 Jn. 5 confirms; that Matt 24: 40-42 alludes to the serious consequence of not watching, to remain holy through doing the true doctrine of Christ, and verses 43-44 speaks of our need to always be abiding in Him (Jn. 15: 4-5) until He comes again. I used to, but no longer, believe the Noah account alludes to a Rapture, but as a cleansing.As we get deeper into scripture it actually proves this to be true. And when this truth is realized, then we will know just how serious it is for the church to be found without spot or blemish, for us to cease from doing the sins of the flesh, and that only them that have ceased from "these" sins (1 Cor. 6: 9-10; Gal. 5: 19-21) will be His Bride!The Lot account I do believe alludes to the Rapture of the Bride, which comes on the same day as sudden destruction, even as Ron Reese speaks of. Again, only as He reveals, the deeper things in scripture show their to be one Rapture, and that, for His Bride to escape all these things coming upon the earth. I personally do not see another rapture, even in the tribulation, as I see the tribulation saints to be of the Jews only, and not of any of the Gentile church, since the apostate church has already "come to the full", since BHO is here now (Dan. 8: 23), therefore, the assumption their will be more of the Gentile church coming to Christ during great tribulation, I just cannot see as true, because the apostate church come to the full already! Therefore, between now and the start of the great tribulation (Nov.?), it now becomes a matter of the Gentile church recognizing their need to truly repent of their sins, and cease from them, to be a part of the Bride, or they, with the unbelievers, will be cast into great tribulation, where God Himself will send upon them strong delusion that they (unbelievers and apostate church) should believe a lie (2 Thess. 2: 11-12). And why will this come upon them? Because they were unwilling to believe that with God's help from the Holy Spirit, that they could cease from sin, as Jesus says, "If you can believe all things are possible to Him that believes" (Mark 9: 23).I also personally believe that God has ended new seed to be harvested (new converts), even has Jesus said in Jn. 9: 4, and Paul said in 2 Tim. 4: 3, and that Gen. 45: 6 alludes to Daniel's last week, this being two years after the revealing of that man of sin, the son of perdition, who later will become Satan incarnate, whose revealing was on Rosh Hashanah 10/29/08, and two years later being Rosh Hashanah 9/10/10.As scripture definitely comforts the true believer in these last days, telling them "Let not your hearts be troubled..." (Jn. 14: 1), knowing the Bride will not have to endure the wrath of God, for they are holy, should surely bring a righteous fear to the church to cease from doing the sins of the flesh, so they may graduate to be apart of the Bride, rather than assume they are."And holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Heb. 12: 14)."...Presumptuous are they, selfwilled...." (2 Pet. 2: 10).Blessings in Christ,Greg