Readers - Many an article has been written about this issue: whether the word "Apostasia" in this verse - 2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"... ...is Paul referring to a "Departure from the Faith", or the "Departure of the Saints, as in the Catching Away"? Since I'm not even a greek language amateur, I can confidently say, I have no idea. MJ Agee and others argue for the Apostle Paul as meaning the Departure (catching away) based on early Bible translations and other factors. This doesn't seem to be mainstream, but what do I know? This information below is my observations, based on bringing into the discussion the number 863, which is the in-text greek numerical value of Apostasia. In December 1997, I felt that by using Strong's numbers, many "mysteries" in the Bible would be cleared up, like this one. ***** re 863 The first Bible verse that has an word in it with an in-text value of 863 = Genesis 2:21 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;" I think this is verse is a "type" of the Catching Away of the living and the dead (Christians) of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. Eve is the Bride who is removed. God could have made Eve out of dirt, just like Adam, but He did not. ***** Bible verse number 863 = Genesis 30:32 "I will pass through all thy flock to day, removing from thence all the speckled and spotted cattle, and all the brown cattle among the sheep, and the spotted and speckled among the goats: and of such shall be my hire." Again, I think verse is a "type" of the Catching Away of the living and the dead (Christians) of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. This verse and this Bible story I have written on before. It is the single most common Bible Story to come up in my study, from which ever angle or theme I seem to be studying. From an earlier post of mine I quote: "I’ve mentioned before that I have lost count on how many times I ended up at this verse or a secondary verse in this chapter that mentions Jacob removing the speckled, spotted and brown animals. This may be a rapture type of the gentiles being taken out, not unlike the vision Peter has of the four cornered sheet being lowered down from Heaven then taken back up to Heaven, filled with various “unclean” animals. see Acts 10:11-12." .....or the "mega-fish" of John 21:11. the 153. ****** Strong's greek word # 863 Aphiemi It has many meanings and translations. Here are some: To leave, to send away, to bid going away, to depart, to let go, to give up a debt, to keep no longer, to depart from someone, to go away leaving something behind, to leave behind, to abandon etc etc.. go here for the complete info on that word: http://www.biblewheel.com/Gr/GR_Database.asp?SearchBy_Strongs=863&Lang=G Surely the reader notices the similarity of the Apostasia word meanings, and the 863g word meanings. They seem to be almost identical. but .... when joined with the other two "witnesses" from above, it appears that the TOTAL theme is REMOVAL OF PERSONS OR THINGS. The rib bone was REMOVED from Adam, and Jacob REMOVED select animals from the flocks. Thus, today, on the basis of my questionable methods, amateur perspective and uninformed greek knowledge, I would say that it appears that the "Apostsia" in this verse refers to the physical removal of people. This is my opinion. I think it is also clear that a doctrinal "departure" of the Church from sound Bible theology, in many denominational circles, HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE. ****** Jesus is Lord.