All:
Critics at that other prophecy forum site want us to believe they do not promote the SDA cult beliefs, and yet, just below their claim "There is no 7 year Pre-Tribulation Rapture" statement, they tell the viewer to: "Research C.I. Scofield, John Darby and Henry Utemeir to be a Berean there is NOT ONE 7 year Pre-Tribulation verse in the Bible Bible. (Note: use the search box of this [their prophecy forum] site and type in Scofield or type in Steve Wohlberg)."
Now I ask you, are they not leading the reader of their prophecy forum page right to one of the SDA's leading voices today on television or the Internet? SDA Steven Wohlberg is all over their prophecy forum page. Talk about the blind leading the blind! What did the Lord say about the blind leading the blind?
The main reason I decided to post a rebuttal to what they had to say over at the prophecy forum page was because of their continued attack on Five Doves and its host. Many taking advantage of this site [Five Doves] have various levels of understanding of the Bible, especially prophecy, because of the days in which we live. You may have had doubts, or have misgivings about a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, especially based upon what is posted on Five Doves. I know many people are afraid to ask questions for various reasons, and others simply hope to glean from the conversation, information that enables them to maintain a personal view without fear of attack, embarrassment, or criticism. I have been a reader of Five Doves since shortly after it went on line.
I have preferred to not influence the discourse, but to choose simply to be quiet, and enjoy the posts.
Being retired, I have diminished mobility - leg issues, and declining vision, so I am predisposed to typos. My mind and memory is superb, and being a student of the Word for 52 years, I am always in the Word day and night.
In my "Standing in the Gap" postings I have been exposing the lies and confusion created by Steven "Mark" Wohlberg at his web site "White Horse Ministry" and often parroted at the prophecy forum page and elsewhere where they hide Steven Wohlberg's ties to the SDA cult. Readers at Five Doves deserve to known where a person is coming from, theologically, if they are to avoid being mislead and confused. A few of you may know that Steven "Mark" Wohlberg and Doug Batchelor operate over a hundred web sites pushing heresy and apostasy of the SDA cult. Virtually, all of those web sites keep their identity or affiliation to the SDA cult out of view but will recommend [feed readers to the main site of Steven Wohlberg at "White Horse Ministry".
My contention is that if you are going to have a web site and not reveal your faith affiliation, then that is nothing short of deception. Call it what you want, but because we are discussing important eternal issues, then it is important to identify your views. We can't all be right!
While I could address the "cafeteria-style" theological discussion/posts problem, inexperienced and untrained minds are hampered in their ability to differentiate between competing views. This is further complicated by the "cherry-picking" of Scriptural passages to support a particular position such as "Dominion/Kingdom-now Theology", which Gary North, Gary DeMar, David Chilton, and others that are associated with. The late Dr. D.J. Kennedy was one of those holding the "Kingdom-now" view. This view teaches the world is getting better every day! Kingdom-now/Dominionism teaches the church will hand the Earth to the Lord when He returns. Now, does anyone believe the world is getting better or Christians are taking the world for Jesus? If they are, they are not following the news on the Internet.
The Kingdom-now or Dominionism theology is misguided at best, and deceived at worst, and the Second Law of Physics applies - "Entropy" is real in our world today. Entropy defines that everything goes from order to disorder. The reader should know where these modern day teachers of the Bible are connected before buying into their belief systems. I have seen too many JW's, Mormons, SDA's, Catholics, that were burned to the point they threw the baby out with the bath water. They rejected any Bible truth because of having been deceived and burned to the point they wanted nothing more of the Christian faith.
Since that rapture prophecy forum site declares "there is no 7 year pre-tribulation rapture" and there is not one verse in the Bible to prove it" they have opened a can of worms. The first mistake is a declaration from arrogance. The second statement is a misrepresentation of the facts. I will be dealing with all of them.
In difference to those trying to make sense of the theories on the last days, I want to affirm the importance of calling out the dishonest statements about the Rapture. We all want to be able to discern the signs of the times, in fact, we are called to do that. Think of my point about eating chicken - eat the meat, discard the bones!
Absence of proof is not proof of absence. A detective would put it this way - Absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence.
The key reason the "Pre-Wrath" Rapture theory is wrong, in my educated opinion, is a failure to draw a distinction between the Church and Israel. By that, I go back to my point that I have stated several times before.
About 80% of Christian churches hold the view that the Church "replaced" Israel. 100% of those in the 80% group hold to an Amillennial view (in which there will be no Kingdom Age). They reject Revelation 20, and in simplicity call God a liar! I have discussed this point before in another post. Revelation mentions the 1,000 year time period, not once, not twice, but six times. The Greek word cannot be interpreted any other way than 1,000 years.
Israel is mentioned nearly 80 times in the New Testament. I defy anyone to prove to me that when the word Israel is mentioned in the New Testament, that one can substitute the word "church" in place of Israel. It can't be done without forcing the meaning of the text to mean something that is not in the English reading or the Greek text.
Followers of Steven "Mark" Wohlberg, try to convince us by "allegoricalization" or "spiritualizing" the text into believing there is no gap between week 69 and 70 of Daniel 9:24-27. Rome began the allegoriclizing of Scripture because in the early church circles, Revelation was looking too be like Rome. They had to get the church eyes off of Revelation and so the church began to teach Scripture by "Allegory". Make it say something different than what the author wrote. The Jesuits are still at work today pushing this lying method. Last year the Pope condemned "Fundamentalism" and those holding the Fundamental position or Dispensational position. The Roman Catholic Church is still about deceiving the faithful and lost brethren / heretics (their choice of words depends who is around at the time they talk about this). The Council of Trent and Vatican II, have not changed a bit. Vatican II did not revoke the Council of Trent, but they painted a picture they (meaning the church) had changed. That's all another subject.
The purpose of the 7-year Tribulation period would favor a Pre-Tribulation Rapture understanding for the timing of the Rapture. Daniel's 70th week relates specifically to the nation of Israel - "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people" -Daniel 9:24. The Lord will deal in a special way with His chosen people so that they will be ready for the coming of the Messiah (Jeremiah 30:4-17). There is no reason why the Church needs to be on Earth during this special time in Jewish history. The Church does need to be on Earth during this special time in Jewish history. The Church does need to be on Earth until:
1. The fulness of the Gentiles comes in -(Romans 1:25),
2. God has finished calling out a people for His Name -(Acts 15:14),
3. Christ finishes building His Church and adding to it -(1 Cor. 3:6-9; 12:18; Eph. 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:5),
4. The last believer has been placed into the Body of Christ, the Church -(1 Cor. 12:13),
5. The Church is received up into Glory -(1 Thess. 4:13-18, compare with 1 Tim. 3:15-16).
Obviously, here, all references to the "Church" is not the denomination, per se, rather believers within or without the physical denominational church.
What most need to remember is that the concept of the Rapture was a "mystery" noted in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. "Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye...."
I am just beginning here. Keep in mind that "Absence of Proof is not Proof of Absence." I need to break here in order to attend to a small family-member emergency matter.
A lot more to come.
Pastor Bob